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UK to fight prisoner votes ruling

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by Mad Lab Rat, May 23, 2012.

  1.  
    Mad Lab Rat

    Mad Lab Rat Mad Lab Rat

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    theangrydog

    theangrydog Domaining & Web Development

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    totally agree with he pm, i would not allowing serving offenders the right to vote while on the inside, i have talking about this several times with friends of mine who have served time and most of them actually agree.
     
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    TandemSolutions

    TandemSolutions Freshman

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    Agreed, they should not be able to vote.
     
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    Bill Ryan

    Bill Ryan Freshman

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    I don't agree. It may be that some serious offence e.g. life imprisonment ticks the box but for all offenders I have problems.

    We all break rules. We don't all get caught though.
     
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    Mark

    Mark Moderator Staff Member

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    Is an offence which warrants a prison term not deemed serious enough?

    :)
     
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    Bill Ryan

    Bill Ryan Freshman

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    It is the removal of a fundamental right. One has happened already, i.e. the right to freedom. That should be the punishment except very serious offences.

    So a law is broken and if it warrants you lose your liberty. Would you agree that it should apply if it turns out to be a suspended sentences as well served?
     
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    Mark

    Mark Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, I agree.
     
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    Mark

    Mark Moderator Staff Member

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    Mark

    Mark Moderator Staff Member

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    This back in the news again with a cross-party committee suggesting they should get the vote in their final year or those with short sentences.

    I still say being in prison is a loss of freedom and should be that.
     
  10.  
    ISS

    ISS Son of Victor Meldrew Premium Member

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    Ever seen Escape from New York?:lol:

    There's a prison system. Send them all to a walled compound and let them all live together.
     
  11.  
    captaincloser

    captaincloser View from the Crow's nest

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    Yet another pointless diversion from running the country. People in prison are taken out of society for a period of time and incarcerated. Outside the walls that contain them they have no cause and no effect. Who are these people who believe prisoners should vote ? Can we have a full and proper statement as to why a person remains in society when a court of law has sentenced that person to lose their liberty and by definition all privileges of society outside the slammer. Or have I missed something ?
    I would sooner let my dog vote.
     
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    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    Sure, the full and proper statement is

    "The ruling in the case of Scoppola v Italy (No 3) makes clear that most sentenced prisoners in the UK have the right to vote. It upholds the principles set out in the original Hirst (No 2) judgment, in particular that the disenfranchisement of “a group of people generally, automatically and indiscriminately, based solely on the fact that they were serving a prison sentence, irrespective of the length of the sentence and irrespective of the nature or gravity of their offence and their individual circumstances, is not compatible with Article 3 of the Protocol No 1” of the European Convention on Human Rights. "

    A shorter version is

    A prisoner looses his freedom, but not his rights as an individual.
     
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    captaincloser

    captaincloser View from the Crow's nest

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    'Based solely on the fact that they were serving a prison sentence'

    That's the bit you need to focus on. They are in prison. In prison you lose your liberty.

    You may wish to reform the whole process of prison but whilst it remains you will not get too many lags allowed to vote so it's all a bit academic. Certainly in the UK.

    As this may turn into a discussion on the merits of prison may I say that prison does not work on the basis of reoffending...but it works much better than no prison and no removal from society. I don't know many people who want criminals running around the neighbourhood all day every day.

    I often wish some would focus their efforts on supporting people who have been wrongly imprisoned and there are many. A far more noble cause than pussyfooting around with voting rights for lags.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2013
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    Mark

    Mark Moderator Staff Member

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    If a prisoner looses his freedom but not his rights as an individual then what about:

    The right to a family life
    The right to possessions
    The right to associate... et al

    Either jail people or don't. Stop fannying around.
     
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    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    He loses those rights which are inevitable when imprisoned; he doesn't lose those that aren't.
     
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    Mark

    Mark Moderator Staff Member

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    It seems the ECHR can pick and choose.

    Better off out.
     
  17.  
    captaincloser

    captaincloser View from the Crow's nest

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    If your house is burgled, your office ransacked or far worse you daughter or wife attacked it will no doubt be very comforting to know that those responsible will be helping to determine how and by whom we are governed in the next parliament and local elections.

    Only truly footloose liberals will be looking at adopting this idea.
     
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    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    The EU law only found that it was illegal to have a blanket ban. That's not the idea: people imprisoned for serious crimes are unlikely to get the vote.

    Bollox

    Believe it or not, there's a good reason why you would want at least some prisoners to maintain their vote - it keeps them involved in society. Virtually all prisoners are let out at some point, when they do come out, you want them as engaged with society as you can get them, not disenfranchised.
     
  19.  
    captaincloser

    captaincloser View from the Crow's nest

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    Please don't lower the tone. Did you say 'bollox' on the radio ? Thought not.

    Being sent to prison is serious full stop.

    I think if you were to have a referendum or just ask a sample of your neighbours the answer would be clear as glass as to prisoners voting in the UK.

    Do you think prisoners forget how society works whilst in prison. If you do then you are talking about rehabilitation. A totally different subject.

    Please try a temperate reply or else I will say something that will get me locked up and thus lose my vote.:cop: :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2013
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    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    Ha ha, a prissy pirate.

    It certainly is but seriousness can vary from a couple of days to life. It's the blanket nature of the ban that the EU have a problem with.

    I would guess that you are correct. They would also probably vote for hanging too. That's not a country I wish to live in.

    The purpose of any sentence is to punish, rehabilitate, protect the public, deter others and to bring some comfort to victims. They are not really divisible, any sane person would want the prisoner to have at least the chance of being changed when they come back into society.

    Now I know that you're such a sensitive little flower, I'll do my best to de-sensitise you ;-)

    Btw. On balance, I think that anyone receiving a prison sentence should lose the right to vote and certainly anyone getting more than a year.
     

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