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Another BBC Spoof Article

Discussion in 'Humour' started by Duncan, Apr 21, 2014.

  1.  
    ISS

    ISS Son of Victor Meldrew Premium Member

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    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    As said earlier,

    It's also an international trend, it's not UK specific.

    That's not to say that the police stats don't need sorting out - they obviously do.
     
  3.  
    ISS

    ISS Son of Victor Meldrew Premium Member

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    Excuse me for sounding daft, however if they don't rely on recorded crime what do they rely upon?
     
  4.  
    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    Crime Survey for England and Wales
     
  5.  
    ISS

    ISS Son of Victor Meldrew Premium Member

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    So it's a survey? Good Lord.

    You mean one of those clip board things where the questions are geared towards getting the specific answers that the surveyor wants to get?

    That's not a tin foil hat theory either Colin. That's a well known practise.
     
  6.  
    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    Come back when you've actually read something.
     
  7.  
    LordLoveRocket

    LordLoveRocket Guest

    It's a nonsense that crime is on the fall. Certainly in Hull. My neighbours got done 3 weeks ago. Im dying for them to try on me because my dogs are trained to rip anything apart - sometimes for the worse, like when the neighbours rabbits disappeared last week (that was awkward).

    4 weeks ago my friend moved to a house from his flat above his shop. Within 2 nights the flat had been burgled (he moved because of being burgled 5 times in the previous year). Within another day his new x5 had the mirrors nicked.

    We know who is doing these crimes in our area but people are not reporting them as these particular scallies get away with it and laugh at the police.

    People are starting to take the law into their own hands more and more. Look for a rise in plastic gangsters offering 'local policing' services...rumour has it its already available in my area at what to me seems a very low price. Even the police have had enough, after one burglary the addresses of these people was sort of accidentally left on show on the files....

    BCS is and always has been a pointless exercise. I studied criminology some 13 years ago now (swapped to full on law after a year), and it was the same then. Just a propaganda machine.

    Enough is enough with all this anti-social behaviour and low level thievery. To be quite frank the only reason I dont get robbed when I am out and about is because I know who all the little scallies are and they know I know (being 6ft 1" isnt much good against a knife or a bat). For me handguns should be legalised and we should have a right to kill anyone who trespasses with intent to steal or harm (after 1 warning - is reasonable to give).
     
  8.  
    ISS

    ISS Son of Victor Meldrew Premium Member

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    I read an awful lot. I'm not anti establishment, I'm pretty well read both on an intellectual level and a current affairs level and, and unlike you I'm prepared to accept that sometimes I'm wrong.

    On the other hand you sir are a pedant who is utterly incapable of listening to anybody elses' point of view and convinced of your own correctness.

    Debate and discussion involves two way communication. Your perspective of debate is to postulate a theory and denigrate anyone who disagrees with you.

    Your epic thread on UKBF demonstrated this to a tee. Everybody was wrong bar you if they disagreed with you. I would love to be so self assured as to my own accuracy in all matters but frankly, I'm self aware enough to never be so arrogant as to believe it.

    Out.
     
  9.  
    LordLoveRocket

    LordLoveRocket Guest

    Sorry only just read this after re-reading the debate below.

    I would just point out that I dont think this is correct CJD. I studied criminology and at any university you will find the BSC is mocked by the criminologists - the ones who dont make money from this rubbish anyway.

    It may or may not be good (well it isnt imho) but to say it is well respected is just not correct. I remember whole units critically analyzing the weakness in the BCS. I don't think things have changed much with the manner of the information gathering since 2002?
     
  10.  
    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    Until i mentioned the Crime Survey, you'd obviously never heard of it. Then you confused it with the the recorded crime statistics even though I'd already told you that they were not the same thing. When you finally got it, you accused it of being "those clip board things where the questions are geared towards getting the specific answers that the surveyor wants to get?" This verdict was without even looking to see what questions were asked wasn't it?.

    As for the rest of your response, you'd do better to keep to the subject, I'm too old and smart to be interested in your opinion of me.
     
  11.  
    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    That's fantastic, you'll be able to give us some evidence to back that statement up. You see, the only thing you've said so far is that in your experience crime is increasing, which you obviously know, given your training, is apocryphal and fallacious.

    as above, evidence please.

    It's a sampled survey, of course it can be criticised. Your task is not to show that it has weaknesses, it's to find any evidence to show that it is wrong to to suggest that the crimes that it's measuring are falling. And then why the indices across the world are saying the same thing.

    I suggest you tackle the hard one first and show why murder, which can't be hidden is any statistics no matter what you believe about conspiracy theory, has fallen even in the US where it's more or less a commonplace.

    Just to get you started, this is from the Daily Wail so you don't think I'm picking my sources, it has the headline "How Britain is becoming a SAFER place to live: Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe

    UK Peace Index: Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe | Mail Online

    [​IMG]
     
  12.  
    LordLoveRocket

    LordLoveRocket Guest

    No need to take that manner with me Colin, I wasn't rude or condescending to you so there is no need to take your anger out on me.

    The evidence is my account which I wrote my friend. Witness statements not allowed in court rooms anymore?

    Colin with respect I came back with a serious point to try and bring the thread round. Your thesaurused (not a word, please advise?) post is just self indulgent and without even anecdotal substance.

    How come you are such an expert in this, hobby mag aren't you? One could say you have a vested interest in this and your views cannot be said to be exactly independent....Did you get all these stats out of hobby judge weekly? (or whatever policy/stat mag you get).
     
  13.  
    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    In your previous post you claimed to have studied both criminology and law, so surely I don't have to remind you that criminology is a social science which requires empirical evidence to support its conclusions and that the law requires evidence not anecdote to convict - let alone hearsay.

    Now, forget all the personal bullshit, what non-anecdotal, non-Hull based, evidence do you have to support your counter-factual assertion that crime is rising despite all the actual evidence from around the world showing completely the opposite?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2014
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    ISS

    ISS Son of Victor Meldrew Premium Member

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    I really would love to know why it's only the things that YOU read that are considered valid?

    By heavens mucka you're a condescending SOB.
     
  15.  
    LordLoveRocket

    LordLoveRocket Guest

    Oh dear dear. Im not even going to embarrass you by explaining what hearsay is because you have missed the point of what it is. Ok I am. I made the statement of my first hand experience. Therefore it ISNT hearsay is it. Its worrying that a part time judge doesnt know this.

    Hearsay would be if I said "crime is rising in hull because ISS told me" or "CJD is a w##### because so and so saw and told me"

    By the way the topic is crime, but hearsay is allowed in civil cases and as such for the purposes of a forum debate my non hearsay evidence should be admissible in this debate!

    Well you have quoted the Daily Mail and even referred to an apparent trend worldwide. But that isn't quite right is it?

    https://www.google.co.uk/#q=crime rising&safe=off

    It's not clear from your post but for the avoidance of doubt hearsay may be admissible in criminal proceedings subject to various factors. You would like a source on that? Oh I can do that:

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/44/section/114


    Edit - To quote Richard Du Cann - the biggest mistake an advocate can make is going a submission too far. You Sir were doing rather well in the debate, but descended into fantasy law with your final post
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2014
  16.  
    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    Look, I've given you stuff from the things that I don't read - I even took time out and specifically searched in places I despise. Now please do me the favour of providing some actual evidence to support your claim from anywhere you like. Anywhere, just make sure it's defensible and by that I mean not something you personally believe to be true - give me some supporting evidence.

    And pack up the insults, they're not working; you can embarrass me with evidence and nothing else.

    (I say embarrass, it's true that I would be embarrassed but I would also change my mind. Try me, show me why you are right and the world is wrong.)
     
  17.  
    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    This is hearsay

    Now ignore all that because it's pure deflection. Even if you had personally witnessed all those events instead of being told about them by your neighbour, it has absolutely no bearing on whether crime in the UK and elsewhere in the world is falling has it? It's your experience in Hull. Maybe ten years ago he would have been burgled 10 times.

    Now get back to the point, you have the education, show me the evidence to support the claim that crime is rising not falling. (As both the recorded crime statistics and the crime survey for England and Wales and other stats for the rest of the western world confirm.)
     
  18.  
    LordLoveRocket

    LordLoveRocket Guest

    Your a funny one pal. You can be very generous with your advice and polite and then you can be so rude for no apparent reason and without provocation (yes I know thats rich).

    How can a comment on a forum be hearsay? Again you still havent shown you know what hearsay is. You're referring to film definitions, did you know documents can be hearsay?

    Hmmm deflection like how you avoided answering my question on how and what changes, if any, the BSC had made to how they collect data in the past decade? Or you avoiding answering whether or not you are a mag and therefore have a vested interest?

    An interest to tell your other middle class leftie friends down the golf club how you did your bit for society by giving a soft sentence to some smackhead. You guys are at fault for so much and you need removing from the justice system. You are out of touch and have no idea what is going on in the 'poorer' areas. Nothing like a bit of back slapping "hey uop crime is down, arent we doing a good job". You talk of evidence but ignore personal accounts and reject them out of hand. Not exactly a good quality to have for a lay member of the judiciary?

    I talk to the local police and they are fed up of busting their guts for middle class leftie mags to falls for the nonsense excuses of criminals. Anyone who lives near the cretins knows that they need tough punishments not namby pamby soft sentences.

    Well you said the trend is global, just search "crime rising" in google and the web is littered with evidence. Where is your evidence to say its a global trend?

    I guess you cant see it from your ivory tower/nice expensive private street but Im guessing your only experience of poor areas is flying above them.

    Now here is what has gone wrong. I posted my opinion and said as such ("Im not sure thats right"). You are trying to pass your own opinion off as fact.

    Whats worrying is that you blatantly didnt bother to read the criminal evidence act and even worse that you assume I didnt witness any of those events just because it helps you prove a point (I did witness one of them because lets just say we went looking for the chaps - chaps who had been released the day before by some soft mag (No im not making that up to suit). You are acting like the BCS is the be all and end all. It is just one source and anyone involved in any type of research will tell you the risks in placing all your eggs in one basket.

    Now you make a lot of assumptions and for a part time mag this is really worrying. Further, you talk about law etc like you are qualified. Im not qualified to be a judge and neither are you. You have a clerk for that. Do you think you know best when the clerk is pointing things out to you? This is a classic example of meddling - murder she wrote style but with terrible results for society.

    I guess you cant see it from your ivory tower/nice expensive private street.

    I think the worst thing about it all is that the police in my area, and indeed all areas place a great importance of the opinion of residents in regards to their perception of crime and the FEAR they suffer.

    You have no regards for this whatsoever and this is shocking that you are so out of touch of public opinion and so unwilling to accept peoples perceptions of crime. Very sad.

    :tup:

    ps I have no problem with middle class folk (some say I am one but i dont go in for all that - but Im really a total charver). But middle class lefties on the other hand are a scourge on society.
     
  19.  
    LordLoveRocket

    LordLoveRocket Guest

    More anecdotal evidence....

    Went up to bed an hour ago. Only to hear a group of chavs screaming and f'ing and blinding outside my house. With my young son inside I thought better of going out. Ten minutes later a police car goes after them.

    20 minutes later 3 kids outside making a racket again. This time I had had enough and went out with one of my dogs. Fortunately for them they immediately recognised what was about to happen and were very apologetic. Indeed when I got close and saw them they were certainly not the same 3 chavs - just 3 students enjoying a night out who were very apologetic.

    Hard working decent people have had enough of these parasites causing anti-social behaviour and low level crime (the first group not the students).

    Enough is enough. There is not a night that goes by that I dont hear the helicopter above and I live in the supposedly best area of Hull now!

    We need tougher sentences because ultimately its hard working folk who try to get on in life that suffer. Crime, and in particular anti-social behaviour is epidemic. Chav youth are feral these days and I tell you what I say that as someone who would say they grow up in a very rough area. Anyone who thinks this isnt the case really does have their heads buried in the sand.

    :2c:
     
  20.  
    cjd

    cjd Junior Lab Tech

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    Still no evidence I see, just rant, deflection and anecdote. You are confusing weather in Hull today with global climate change over decades. This is what I have evidence for and i'm asking you for your evidence for denying it:


    Excerpt From: Farrell, Graham. “Crime Science.”
     

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