PAT Testing

[MGarrett]

Both of our engineers are qualified to carry out portable appliance testing. As previously said, the market is so saturated that for companies with overheads, 'one man band' type setup's are able to under cut and provide a very cheap service.

That being said, we still have a couple of contracts that continue to use us, as we are reliable, fast, experienced and store all PAT testing records on file!

Mike

Are all your engineers fully qualified tradesmen?

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[megahertz]

We shifted our business model significantly in the recession, and now we get a lot of new business by telling our customers that they don't need to have their equipment tested every year, but instead we carry out a free audit to look at their equipment, how it is used etc, and then make recommendations based on that.

We find that this works well - in the vast majority of cases we can show that equipment hasn't been tested properly in the past, and so we do it all there and then. Afterwards, we set sensible time scales.

We work on the basis that it is better to test something properly every 4 years, than to pay somebody to put a sticker on it every 12 months.

[MASSEY]

Originally Posted by BDW

It is very significant to note that the HSE goes out of its way to stress that it is a myth that PAT testing is a requirement.

Unfortunately the people trying to sell PAT testing and PAT testing training don't (for obvious reasons) tell people this. Many businesses are conned into getting this done when the risks are extremely small.

But the bit about taking care of the property you are in charge of or find yourself in deep shit, that bit is not a myth.

I would not say the risks are small electrocution is a serious issue.

I know people that pat test 50p an item, it's basically cheap as chips to get done anyway.

[safetymatters]

How often should PAT Testing be carried out?" Well, from a legal point of view, the answer would be ‘Never - it doesn't have to be done at all'

There is absolutely no legal requirement for anyone to have PAT Testing done. It's a myth. For PAT Testing to be a legal requirement, an Act of Parliament would need to have been passed stating such; no such Act has ever been passed. True, there have been several Acts passed concerning electrical safety at work, but no, none of them mention PAT Testing being a legal requirement.

In brief.. it's not the inspection and testing that is the legal requirement, but the fact that the electrical equipment in the Workplace, at all times, must be 'safe, well-maintained and suitable for the purpose for which it is being used'.

Many companies out there scaremongering businesses into getting equipment tested annually when there is really no need at all to do so..

I would not say the risks are small electrocution is a serious issue.

Yes electrocution is a serious issue but the risks are very, very small. They don't even keep stats on it any more or I would show you them. Feel free to point me to any that you can find.

Most modern Portable Equipment is now double insulated and supplied with properly fitted moulded plugs. The overwhelming majority of problems are evident without having to do a test to find them.

I am not trying to minimise this and some sort of routine safety check is always a good thing but the HSE would not print this if it was serious issue. they are not in the business of encouraging people into dangerous practises.

HSE’s advice is that for most office electrical equipment, visual checks for obvious signs of damage and perhaps simple tests by a competent member of staff are quite sufficient.

(I am a time served electrician and a trained electrical and maintenance engineer by the way. I just prefer an easier life now.)

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[megahertz]

I agree with the two points above - the risks are small, and user checks would normally be sufficient, if done correctly. And it is also true that PAT Testing Companies sometimes try to convince their customers that PAT testing is a legal requirement.

However - suppose you were in charge of an organisation with 10,000 staff, all with a computer on their desk, extension leads everywhere, mobile phone chargers and fan heaters under desks - is it reasonable to assume that every single one of these appliances is ok? How confident would you be that all of your staff carried out a visual check every time they plugged in a piece of equipment, and declined to use it if something was wrong?

The simple fact is that we DO find dodgy equipment when we go round PAT Testing - in an ideal world they'd find it themselves, but in the REAL world our customers carry on using dodgy stuff until we turn up and tell them not to.

Also, the major driving factor is not HSE's requirement, but the fact that insurance companies expect to see PAT Testing carried out, and often won't pay out after an accident if PAT testing hasn't been done. If you're a DJ, or in a band, you won't be able to set up your equipment in a hotel or council venue if you haven't had it tested, and if you're a contractor you won't usually be allowed on a building site unless your stuff's been tested within the last 3 months.

The fact is that some office based businesses were paying for PAT Testing annually, and that might have been too much. But the HSE guidance is often read as 'we don't need to do anything about our electrical appliances' (that isn't what it says, but it's how it's often interpreted) and so some companies have stopped checking their equipment, full stop. They will find themselves in very deep water if and when something goes wrong!

[highlandspring]

Isn't it only a requirement if you have over a certain number of employees? 6 or 8 from memory?

But the HSE guidance is often read as 'we don't need to do anything about our electrical appliances' (that isn't what it says, but it's how it's often interpreted) and so some companies have stopped checking their equipment, full stop.

"HSE’s advice is that for most office electrical equipment, visual checks for obvious signs of damage and perhaps simple tests by a competent member of staff are quite sufficient."

The fact is that HSE says what it says above because they know the risks are minimal to non existent. For example I cannot find a single instance of an office worked being electrocuted by office equipment on the Internet.

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[Mark]

Is PAT testing now a requirement for insurance? I wouldn't be surprised if they'd capitalised on yet another 'get out clause'...

[Lockyer]

nope. it's not even a H&S requirement

[Mark]

I'm still seeing 'PAT testing is a legal requirement' on various sites... only an hour or so ago on Twitter in fact.

[simonr]

often insist on PAT certificates for equipment we take in. I don't know if that's just them trying to find ways to make you hire their in-house kit at (stupidly high) costs though.....?

[theangrydog]

A friend of mine started a pat testing business a cpl of years ago with his redundancy money turned 2k into a good business his sons now run,
compared to a lot of start-ups it doesnt take a great desl of money to setup

[safetymatters]

Is PA Testing a legal requirement? Confusing for the consumer driven, by insurance companies.

There is no specific Legal Requirement however, there is a combination of a bunch of legislation that applies to all electrical equipment used in, or associated with, places of work. This includes the smallest piece of electrical equipment.

Here is some Technical jargon

"'Electrical Equipment' includes anything used, intended to be used or installed for use, to generate, provide, transmit, transform, rectify, convert, conduct, distribute, control, store, measure or use electrical energy."

It is clear that there is a requirement to inspect and test all types of electrical equipment in all work situations.

Here is a Senario

Regardless of any legal requirements, the consequences of an electrical fault causing a fire or resulting in somebody receiving an electric shock or even a fatality as a result of failing to maintaining / testing electrical equipment to an efficient state then a prosecution may be in order for the employer.

Here is a Prosecution

A 17 year old collapsed in a pool of water after he moved a plate-warmer that became live because of a badly made plug. He died just days after handing in his notice at xxxxxxxx.

At least four other employees had received electric shocks from the same machine before the tragedy. The plugs earth wire had been disconnected and was lying over the live cable.

PA Tests later showed 11 out of the 56 appliances in the diner were faulty


As PA Testing is a form of checking that equipment is safe, it is a point of good practice.


PS Mark. Who was it on Twitter I'm very interested please PM or DM me @veritas_office

[Mark]

I don't recall now, it was days ago. I'll see if I can find it.

[draelectricals]

Originally Posted by safetymatters

Is PA Testing a legal requirement? Confusing for the consumer driven, by insurance companies.

There is no specific Legal Requirement however, there is a combination of a bunch of legislation that applies to all electrical equipment used in, or associated with, places of work. This includes the smallest piece of electrical equipment.

Here is some Technical jargon

\"'Electrical Equipment' includes anything used, intended to be used or installed for use, to generate, provide, transmit, transform, rectify, convert, conduct, distribute, control, store, measure or use electrical energy.\"

It is clear that there is a requirement to inspect and test all types of electrical equipment in all work situations.

Here is a Senario

Regardless of any legal requirements, the consequences of an electrical fault causing a fire or resulting in somebody receiving an electric shock or even a fatality as a result of failing to maintaining / testing electrical equipment to an efficient state then a prosecution may be in order for the employer.

Here is a Prosecution

A 17 year old collapsed in a pool of water after he moved a plate-warmer that became live because of a badly made plug. He died just days after handing in his notice at xxxxxxxx.

At least four other employees had received electric shocks from the same machine before the tragedy. The plugs earth wire had been disconnected and was lying over the live cable.

PA Tests later showed 11 out of the 56 appliances in the diner were faulty


As PA Testing is a form of checking that equipment is safe, it is a point of good practice.


PS Mark. Who was it on Twitter I'm very interested please PM or DM me @veritas_office

This a brilliant post, so good to read and refreshing that this whole thread is quite positive about PAT; that's rare to see! I'm now following you on twitter, I am @draelectricals

Would be great to have a chat some time if you don't mind, your example is spot on.

I've posted on the thread you put this link on.

I had a client until last year, a golf club. They'd had their testing done in 2009 and 2010 by me. In 2011, they decided that they needed to save money so wouldn't get it done. To save less than £200.00

I was testing their bar, kitchen, a few adjacent rooms and the gardener's tools.

Earlier this year, they had a fire, started in the kitchen by a faulty microwave oven.

The insurer refused to pay out stating the reason that in the past they had been PAT Tested, but had decided not to get it done when due in October 2011. The insurer said the PAT Test may have found the fault, but even if it hadn't there would be evidence the business had done what it can to ensure the item was safe, in which case they would have paid out.

The fire gutted the club house causing £300k worth of damage. Without insurance the business couldn't be saved and went bust.

So, to save £200 the golf club lost £300,000 and went bankrupt.

The morale of the story is: don't try to save money on safety, it will always come back to haunt you.

I know this information for 2 reasons: 1. the insurance company called me as a witness for the case, and 2. a good friend of mine was on the 'committee' for the club and told me the final details.