Link Builders seo advisors

[Flash Online Designers]

Hi all.

One of my businesses which currently does all its own seo is looking into the possibility of outsourcing some seo work we need doing.

We are on page 5 of google for a competitive keyword, and want to get to number 1! I hate the idea of spending money when there are no guarantees of a return.

Do any SEO people work on a no win no fee basis????

[Mat]

Originally Posted by Flash Online Designers

Hi all.

One of my businesses which currently does all its own seo is looking into the possibility of outsourcing some seo work we need doing.

We are on page 5 of google for a competitive keyword, and want to get to number 1! I hate the idea of spending money when there are no guarantees of a return.

Do any SEO people work on a no win no fee basis????

The short answer is no, but SEO is something you can realistically outsource to India. Find a good firm, with references you can check, and you should do OK.

[OldWelshGuy]

No REAL Seo will work for nothing and carry all the risk. Here is the thing, Why should they?

Call in a builder and tell him. Build me a house and if I like it I will pay.

Call a dress designer and say , if I am happy with it I will pay.

It simply isn't going to happen, and why? Because good SEO's are busy, they don't NEED to take on a client that doesn't fit their system. I pick and choose who I work for, and I certainly wouldn't work for someone who wanted me to work for 6-12 months for free, and then maybe pay me.

Do you know why? because people like that will always find a reason NOT to pay!

Imagine this, you tell me you want to be page 1 of Google for phrase " xx xxx xxx " it takes me 12 months, I have quoted you £10,000. I get you there, I ask for my money, but you are not getting the returns you expected for that phrase, so you refuse to pay me the £10,000. I take you to court, you close your limited company down, sell the domain name and site to another company (that you also own), and there's is not a thing I can do about it!

One thing though. The difference between a quality Eo and a link builder is immense. A good SEO will advise on other things that could greatly increase your conversion rate.

[Paul Norman]

I agree with OWG. Strongly. I dont do SEO as such, but I do e-commerce consultancy, and I do get results.

But, at the quality end of any service, you will have to pay.

However, on a positive note, the good SEO providers do get results. And you can ask them for proof of this up front, and they will be happy to provide it. So the risk you are taking is small, and the return is usually good.

[Flash Online Designers]

[quote=OldWelshGuy;1395]Imagine this, you tell me you want to be page 1 of Google for phrase " xx xxx xxx " it takes me 12 months, I have quoted you £10,000. I get you there, I ask for my money, but you are not getting the returns you expected for that phrase, so you refuse to pay me the £10,000. I take you to court, you close your limited company down, sell the domain name and site to another company (that you also own), and there's is not a thing I can do about it!QUOTE]

Nice idea

I was actually speaking in the pub last night with a few designers and pr people, and the discussion ended with a comparison comparing SEO with Pr and marketing.

In marketing and PR, there are no guarantees of results, but you can choose an agency that has prof of past results. You have to dip your toes in the water to fully understand the benefits or otherwise. When you have had one good experience, you can justify the expense for future.

For this particular site, we have done it all ourselves to date, and would be interested in hearing options from SEO people.... but it is rightfully hard to get a quote, and an idea of what the results would be.

[OldWelshGuy]

SEO is SEm search engine marketing. a good SEo wil market your site acxross the web while building backlinks to help your rankings. Comparing it to advertising and marketing is a direct comparison. If I rang around a handful of marketing/advertising agencies and told them I wanted to book a 6 month run with them, and ywould pay when i saw some results, I would have six really short telephone conversations

If you are looking to get quotes, you are going to need to set out some expectations. IE. we want to be on page one/ top 5 / #1 for these phrases... That way people will be able to quote you.

people would need the url as well, but I wouldn't recommend publishing it, I would keep that, and most other stuff (including the stuff above) private .

[Eagle]

Unfortunately, I have to agree that services should be paid for at the time. If you pay for a quality SEO person or firm, then there shouldn't be any need to worry.

(Not having a pop) but Harlan has a thing or two to say:

YouTube - Harlan Ellison -- Pay the Writer

So has to be the best YouTube clip ever!

[TownDeeds]

You CAN get SEOs that work on results - I guess it would depend on what you considered a 'competitive' phrase. What you may think is hard someone else might find pretty easy, especially if you happen to have 'done all your own SEO'

what's the site? can you post it or PM it to me?

[Flash Online Designers]

When I say we have done all our own seo, I should point out that it does bring us in a few hundred grand of sales a year through natural results, so i guess we aren't doing too bad????

I was simply looking to start a conversation to see if anyone knew of such an arrangement.

I am not going to post the site or the keywords on here, as my competitors would then know what I am planning

[Mat]

Originally Posted by Flash Online Designers

a few hundred grand of sales a year through natural results, so i guess w1e aren't doing too bad????

Is that all? Pah!

[OldWelshGuy]

The ONLY way I consider not being paid for the SEo and taking a punt is when I am offered a share of the company or when I get an affilliate deal as the main affiliate (IE all the sales go through me as an affiliate at say 10-20% )

I honestly don't see why anyone would just lay down and agree to grant that much credit. That said in the past i HAVE qioted for this sort of work, but charged exactly double my rate for an 'on results' payment. The guy turned around and told me there was no way he was going to pay me twice my rate! His call, I was approached by one of his competitors a month or two afterwards, and they now dominate the SERP's. Oh and they paid me normally

[NikkiPilkington]

Like oWG, I occasionally work on a pay by results basis. And also like him I insist on a percentage of every sale from the moment I start my work. The other option is that I charge a fee for front page positions (and it's a lot more than twice my normal fee, depending on the phrase) which goes into Escrow and is paid to me once the front page position has been achieved and kept for a month.

The client has to pay all solicitor and Escrow fees though - needless to say, I don't get many takers

Any good SEO will have examples they can show you as well as testimonials from happy clients (happy clients that can be contacted).

[Flash Online Designers]

I spoke to James last night, and it looks like we will be doing business very soon.

This morning however I received an email from another company that I requested info from, and they charge nothing up front until you get to page one in google. They then charge you per month per keyword for a minimum contract of 6 months.

Different business model... but I would be wary that they would just as quickly "Black hat" your site if you decided to leave them after the 6 month contract period.

[NikkiPilkington]

Could you forward that email to me please? nikki@nikkipilkington.com I'm writing an article on 'When is a Guarantee not a guarantee' at the moment so would be interested in seeing it. Thx.

[Flash Online Designers]

Surely that would be breaking confidentiality if I did that?

Although on the face of it one would think it is a no win no fee approach, I am inclined to think that they are only interested in a fast busrt to page 1, which may involve black hat techniques that leave you high and dry afterwards....

[OldWelshGuy]

Originally Posted by Flash Online Designers

Surely that would be breaking confidentiality if I did that?

Although on the face of it one would think it is a no win no fee approach, I am inclined to think that they are only interested in a fast busrt to page 1, which may involve black hat techniques that leave you high and dry afterwards....

Read the small print, it may state that as long as they have you at number 1 you HAVE to pay for 6 months, regardless of whether or not you are still there afterwards.

Then again it could be a genuine offer!

[NikkiPilkington]

It's the small print i'm interested in that 'qualifies' the 'guarantee'.

I wouldn't say it's breaking confidentiality - if i were a friend and you thought the deal would benefit me, you'd recommend them to me and possibly send me the email - it's no different. Unless you've signed a NDA or a confidentiality agreement

[Flash Online Designers]

Don't worry! I am not going with it!

The small print says that payments stop when it drops out of the top page, so I guess it comes down to 6x2 keywords per monthly fee and whether I think it is worth it?

Main concern is the possibility of proper damage to the rankings a year down the line if I leave them.

But in answer to my initial question, YES. you can find no win no fee seo companies. But are they worth the risk..... hmmmmm

[TownDeeds]

Originally Posted by Flash Online Designers

I am not going to post the site or the keywords on here, as my competitors would then know what I am planning

Without knowing the keywords or site it would be hard to make a conclusion - as I said, you can PM me the details and I could see if it were to be viable.
What you consider competitive someone else may not.

Originally Posted by Flash Online Designers

I should point out that it does bring us in a few hundred grand of sales a year through natural results, so i guess we aren't doing too bad????

If you are making a few 100 grand per year then..
a) you should be able to afford an SEO through the proper channels
b) at least you have a page that converts well into sales

James

[Bread and Buddha Ltd.]

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