Trade Marks

[Ray Stewart]

Does anyone here have experience of registering a name as a trademark? - and knows what is involved...timescale...costs...etc

Any help gratefully received

[Wana Bee]

Originally Posted by Ray Stewart

Does anyone here have experience of registering a name as a trademark? - and knows what is involved...timescale...costs...etc

Any help gratefully received

read through this... Intellectual Property Office - Trade marks

You may need help with it though, If so limeone.co.uk are great!

takes alot of research and skill

[Mark]

Have a chat with Philip Cooper at Potts Kerr & Co.

[skeeter]

Hello,

This thread was posted on twitter. I thought I would give you a little of what I have learnt over the 7 years of business development with SMEs. It is not a lot on this subject, but it may be of use.

I have never applied for a trademark. I have customers who have registered trademarks. I have customers where I have witnessed the process. Trademarks are registered under different categories. The application I believe is not expensive.

But. I understand that it is not advisable to go for a DIY approach and attempt to register it yourself. It is adviable to employ a professional agent, who are legally trained to do it on your behalf and who are experienced in the application process. This is usually expensive. It is drawn out.

I won't give you the specific examples, but £ 10,000 approx is what it cost one of my customers. There was a dispute about the mark in one category. They had to do a bit of fighting and won. Another paid a total sum of about £ 7,000. Both have their trademarks. Both use them.

You may like to give a general idea of why you are wondering about trademarks...

PS. I will not be posting again, I am just passing through.

[Wana Bee]

Originally Posted by skeeter

Hello,

This thread was posted on twitter. I thought I would give you a little of what I have learnt over the 7 years of business development with SMEs. It is not a lot on this subject, but it may be of use.

I have never applied for a trademark. I have customers who have registered trademarks. I have customers where I have witnessed the process. Trademarks are registered under different categories. The application I believe is not expensive.

But. I understand that it is not advisable to go for a DIY approach and attempt to register it yourself. It is adviable to employ a professional agent, who are legally trained to do it on your behalf and who are experienced in the application process. This is usually expensive. It is drawn out.

I won't give you the specific examples, but £ 10,000 approx is what it cost one of my customers. There was a dispute about the mark in one category. They had to do a bit of fighting and won. Another paid a total sum of about £ 7,000. Both have their trademarks. Both use them.

You may like to give a general idea of why you are wondering about trademarks...

PS. I will not be posting again, I am just passing through.

Good post, shame you wont be staying and adding more value to the community

[skeeter]

Originally Posted by Wana Bee

Good post, shame you wont be staying and adding more value to the community

This is my forth forum I have joined in 2 weeks. The first two were full of kids. The third is like this, but, they slammed the project. I read this post because I followed the forum lady on Twitter who has joined our twitter. We are not tweeting, but I came across this.

[Wana Bee]

Originally Posted by skeeter

This is my forth forum I have joined in 2 weeks. The first two were full of kids. The third is like this, but, they slammed the project. I read this post because I followed the forum lady on Twitter who has joined our twitter. We are not tweeting, but I came across this.

this forum is very good, worth staying here for a little while. I doubt people on this forum will *slam* the project Thanks

[skeeter]

Originally Posted by Wana Bee

this forum is very good, worth staying here for a little while. I doubt people on this forum will *slam* the project Thanks

OK, I will see what's what.

A little more on the original thread.

There are other forms of protecting intelectual property. Why a Trademark? Does the business specifically require a trademark protection?

I run a small business and I protect my business identity by copyright. So, what are your business requirements to requiring trademark protection?

[Mark]

Thing is; you can't copyright a business name - it can only be protected by a trade mark.

Visuals are usually (automatically) protected by copyright (logos, photos etc) but not individual, namey, 'wordy things'.

[skeeter]

Originally Posted by Mark

Thing is; you can't copyright a business name - it can only be protected by a trade mark.

Visuals are usually (automatically) protected by copyright (logos, photos etc) but not individual, namey, 'wordy things'.

Bang on. Take Perspex. Nobody asks for "Transprent strong plastic stuff".

Not every case needs a Trademark. They can add value. They can protect. But it is case specific.

I have friends who operated in China. I can tell you if it is manufactured somewhere like that, no protection will help, a product will walk out of one door and into another.

So, give careful consideration to a trademark? Why you need one. And what it is for? They can be valuable assets.

[Ray Stewart]

Thanks for the good advice and the two links. Neither gives much of a hint on costs/fees/protectability but I shall do some more digging.

The whole thing arose because of a conversation I had with a client yesterday afternoon. They have a particularly unusual business name and are looking for a way to protect it. I must admit it is an area I know little about - hence the post.

I have had several clients in the past involved with patents for inventions and that was a horribly expensive route and ended up with next to no protection anyway. It seems someone can copy a patented invention to the last degree as long as they change at least one minor part - and there is nothing to be done to stop them. The only hope is to secure a manufacturing/distribution deal whilst the details are still secret and make as much return as possible until others inevitably (if it is successful) copy it.

I wondered if Trade Marks were equally toothless - or actually worthwhile obtaining for a small to medium sized business - or are they purely for the huge corporations with deep pockets to buy and then legally protect their trademarks?

[INDIZINE]

A lot of people get trademarks confused with patents i've noticed. A straightforward application doesn't cost too much in the grand scheme of things however it's the disputes that cost when using lawyers to fight it, not the application cost itself.

They do add value to your business if you plan to use your brand as a selling point.

[skeeter]

Originally Posted by Ray Stewart

Thanks for the good advice and the two links. Neither gives much of a hint on costs/fees/protectability but I shall do some more digging.

The whole thing arose because of a conversation I had with a client yesterday afternoon. They have a particularly unusual business name and are looking for a way to protect it. I must admit it is an area I know little about - hence the post.

I have had several clients in the past involved with patents for inventions and that was a horribly expensive route and ended up with next to no protection anyway. It seems someone can copy a patented invention to the last degree as long as they change at least one minor part - and there is nothing to be done to stop them. The only hope is to secure a manufacturing/distribution deal whilst the details are still secret and make as much return as possible until others inevitably (if it is successful) copy it.

I wondered if Trade Marks were equally toothless - or actually worthwhile obtaining for a small to medium sized business - or are they purely for the huge corporations with deep pockets to buy and then legally protect their trademarks?

Hi Ray. Trademark is a valid method for an SME to protect a name. I offer my customers advice on how to get the best protection. Generally Trademark is an expensive method of protection. Too expensive. Often too lengthy as well.

But equally it may be necessary. If it is, it should be filed for, before the concept is released. Business is usually based on 'the idea'. Nodoubt, the trademark relates to the idea. This is why Trademark is not usually used for an existing SME. Trademark for an SME owner is usually a second project on something new.

I hope this goes a down in a little more depth for you.

What you must look for is an IP Agent. Similar in concept to agents that register companies. Don't look on the web, find a practice elsewhere.

[Shandp]

We are a firm of trade mark and patent agents. Trade marks are valuable assets which protect your brands and business. If a third party attempts to trade on your goodwill it is difficult and costly to take action without a valid trade mark registration. The registration process itself, dependant upon in which countries protection is sought, can be relatively inexpensive.

You can contact us on 0117 9226007 or mail@shpbristol.co.uk for free initial advice. For further information visit our website on SH&P > European Patent and Trade Mark Attorneys

Jon Sutton
SH&P > European Patent and Trade Mark Attorneys

[Ray Stewart]

Thanks for your input Jon.

Can you be a little more specific than "relatively inexpensive" for a small business to protect it's name just in the UK?

I also recommend you nip over to introductions and formally introduce yourself

[Shandp]

Hi Ray, there are so many variables to consider that its probably best to have a quiet chat. Give us a call and we can discuss.

Jon Sutton
0117 9226007
SH&P > European Patent and Trade Mark Attorneys