Dog defending against a swan..

[paultgreen]

Whilst on a walk today, my dogs were actively stalked and prevented from taking their swim by a couple of swans who were defending the riverbank, and swam nearly the whole length of our walk alongside them, hissing and growling whenever the dogs went too close to the bank - I'm guessing they were protecting a clutch of eggs or something rather than just taking a dislike to my two dogs.. What I'm curious though - one of my dogs does have a firey temper with other animals and will only take so much, and has had it since we got her from rottie rescue - had the swan actually gone for her, I don't doubt she would have bitten its neck in half... what would the legal situation be if the dog was defending? I know the press would report it as vicious rottweiler attacks poor little swan, but would I end up in court fighting for her life?

[INDIZINE]

swans are known to be vicious too and have attacked people, though like you say, mainly when defending something. I think they are on some protected species list so you are supposed to, when in their vicinity, take appropriate due care by leashing dogs and moving away from them. Your dog has the ability to be captured and removed by you, the swans don't have that protection so it's up to you to take preventative measures.

[Lime One]

If you know your dog has a short fuse then you should muzzle her/him. This will protect you and the dog from the pain of euthanasia, you know how much time people have for rotties and too many are destroyed for isolated incidents.

[paultgreen]

Originally Posted by Lime One

If you know your dog has a short fuse then you should muzzle her/him. This will protect you and the dog from the pain of euthanasia, you know how much time people have for rotties and too many are destroyed for isolated incidents.

I refuse to muzzle my dog, and maybe it's the power of text but I find your tone rather patronising, although I may have asked for it by posting the question. Both of my dogs are breed ambassadors that allow children to ride them, instinctively play differently with our two of different ages, and act instictivly with humans (with the exception of when one is on patrol) The second someone meets a dog in a muzzle they treat it differently, and dogs pick up on this - I personally think that it causes the dog more damage than good - I've worked hard enough locally to stop people crossing the road when my dogs are out on a walk, and putting a muzzle on one of them will push this back.

She has a short fuse around other dogs, which I manage with vigilance, a shaker, and various distraction techniques.. There have been occasions I have had to pin my bitch to the floor, but there's three months since I've had to this last. With the specific incident in question, it took the swans in question coming up on the bank on the offensive each occasion for her to get riled by them. If the swan started - she would have finished it - her pack were under threat (which we genuinely were had the swan attacked, as the kids and dogs were both on their leads on the river bank with us). Incidentally, when she does have a tantrum at another dog, my male dog will go and sit by them, almost as if he knows she's misbehaving.

Not all Rottweiler owners are two bit chavs that don't deserve oxygen, and with ten years experience in owning and training the breed, I've never had one get its teeth in to another living creature, and I pray this continues. People's perception in my village/suburb is slowly changing, and the number of people that meet my dogs and say how they're shocked at the intelligence level and how placid they are.

[Lime One]

The original posting asked about the legal implications and I am reporting on those. Rotties and many other large breed dogs, regardless of how you or I view them, do not get the benefit of the doubt in court cases.

Defending clients with dogs who have bitten or frightened others over time is very difficult so the short legal answer is don't take the risk.

A muzzled dog does behave differently, I agree ( having trained and bred large breeds also), and this is not about chavs or any other supposed 'superiority' issue on my part. I just believe, having seen so many legal cases on this issue a muzzled dog is better than a dead one.

If you have had to pin your dog down to assert authority in the last year then you could at least consider the dog could be unreliable when threatened. Compound that in a public area with kids and adults looking at the swans and the chances of your dog being given a second chance is very unlikely. It's a chance I wouldn't take having seen the way courts make up their minds on public interest issues.

[MIRRORSTYLE]

With all due respect you are putting your animal at risk where the swans are doing something natural,you have the power to put the dog on a leash and take the dog away from the danger, what would have happened if both dogs would have attacked,you could not have controlled both, its a bit like when you are around sheep,Im sure you wouldnt as a respondsible dog owner allow the dogs unleashed around sheep? If you did that you would risk the dogs being shot, I think it best play safe and respect the swans natural behaviour,they are a protected species and any injury of course would look bad on you and your dogs. Common sense should prevail and remove the dog from the danger by having it on a lead whilst they are in the vicinity. A bit blunt I know but well meant.

[paultgreen]

The dog in question stays on harnessed at all times, whether it's her normal lead, or her 15M trainer lead when she's actually in the river, and she always will - apologies if the original post was confusing. The pathway along the taff cuts very close to the river quite often, so the only way to prevent this happening would be to completely change our regular walks.

As mentioned - the Swans were actively stalking the dogs, and for the duration of the walk (about a mile's distance) the swans were never more than 3 metres away from us. If we stopped for a matter of minutes to allow my partner and the baby to catch up (he's also on his harness and lead), the swans would head for land, so I would have to continue walking in order to get them back in the water.

I am interested though in another take on this, and not sure if it'd ever happen as I don't know about swan behaviour.. if my partner were alone with the boys when this had happened and the swan went to attack her, would the dog be allowed to defend her? how about the same situation for a goose... and then also the same scenario if the breed of dogs wasn't one with a reputation, say, a St Bernard.

@Lime One - Are the courts biased in favour of breeds that haven't made a name for themselves?

I'm sure it's something everyone's had at some point, but I'd rather be tracked by a human than a swan!

[MIRRORSTYLE]

Funnily enough I remember when my kids were little my wife used to take them for a walk not far from our house and once the male swan (whilst female was nesting) did fly out of the water and chase my wife and pushchair along the bank,Ive heard tales that a large male swan can break legs with their wings - they also pack a nifty hiss and bite.Glad the dogs are on leash - and as you say what would happen if they were attacked - its a hard one. Its difficult keeping a balance as Im sure the dogs would indeed defend you and yr wife and children

[paultgreen]

Originally Posted by MIRRORSTYLE

Funnily enough I remember when my kids were little my wife used to take them for a walk not far from our house and once the male swan (whilst female was nesting) did fly out of the water and chase my wife and pushchair along the bank,Ive heard tales that a large male swan can break legs with their wings - they also pack a nifty hiss and bite.Glad the dogs are on leash - and as you say what would happen if they were attacked - its a hard one. Its difficult keeping a balance as Im sure the dogs would indeed defend you and yr wife and children

I've heard stories of geese being used as guard animals because of their territorial nature, and other stories that geese and swans pack more power in to their neck than your average featherweight boxer.

Does anyone know if this is nesting season for swans? it seems strange that both swans were on patrol, and i've not seen them on this stretch of river before, so if it's not nesting time I'm wonderingif they're just trying to take over the neighbourhood.