Web Design BAD experiences

[JamieS]

Originally Posted by premier training

I built a website for a client. He wanted 7 pages. Quoted him a price for the site based on 7 pages.

But... he started ringing me up almost daily for all of his computer issues. He (...)

Holy cr**!
What a nice person
I did a website (and a little bit of internet marketing) for one of my clients, and he is also emailing me for help, when something happens. Fortunately it is site related, so I can live with that (for now)

[Christiaan Harden]

Originally Posted by JMCDesigner

Does anyone have any bad experiences to tell, whether with designers, doing it yourself or anything web design + related to your business? This is more from the perspective of website buyers, rather than web designers themselves.

One common problem is that once the site is designed, if you don't have access to the back end or the knowledge to make simple changes, you can get charged ridiculous sums for very simple jobs.

You have no idea how long it really took the company to make a change, unless you know a little bit about it yourself.

[pete]

In business terms my problem areas come with working with 3rd party design teams and their lack of understanding of the aim of the game.

Generally speaking a website is produced to make money for the site owner, for this to be effective a website needs to be constructed in a particular manner.

This is how we work

A project is discussed and agreed on

The client pays a 50% deposit

The design team work with the client in the production of an image concept

The design team produce a landing page for the site

I start the link building process

The owner agrees on a concept and the design process is initiated

I work with the client on keyword issues and the services offered, I then formulate a spreadsheet that contains

1. Sub page structure (this forms the site navigation)
2. Sub page URL structure
3. Meta tag information
4. H1 headers

Once completed this is passed onto the design team

During the design process the site owner is in regular contact with the design team via our project management system

Whilst the site is being built I work with the client on the construction of page content, once completed to the necessary standard these pages are passed onto the designers

Remember link building is carried out daily

I talk with the site owner on visibility/marketing issues, i.e forums, linkedin, social media etc

When the site is ready for release I arrange for good quality hosting (if required) and make sure the optimisation finishing touches are put in place

The site is released.

The final payment is made

The results we achieve in terms of visibility on new projects is exceptional but as you can see we do a lot more than just slapping a website together, the problem areas I have is when a 3rd party design teams are not used to working to these high standards

[Mat]

Originally Posted by andicrook

I find many designers over use DIVs and use DIVs when they should be using more suitable mark-up. I also find many dont know the differece between DIV's and SPAN's

Why the rant? I like sexy code as much as the next web type, but it doesn't make a dot of difference, as long as the result works for the client.

[Mat]

Originally Posted by Christiaan Harden

One common problem is that once the site is designed, if you don't have access to the back end or the knowledge to make simple changes, you can get charged ridiculous sums for very simple jobs.

You have no idea how long it really took the company to make a change, unless you know a little bit about it yourself.

I've seen examples of web design companies 'ripping off' clients to the tune of thousands of pounds. One of our early clients was paying their web development company a £500/month 'opportunity' fee. The contract stated that for this amount, the web design company would let the client know if they thought of a good idea. Essentially, the client was actually paying the company to think up things it could sell to them.

However, I've also run into situations where the client is absolutely convinced they're being ripped off when in fact they're asking for something complex and a reasonable amount is being quoted.

As somebody mentioned earlier, the way around it is communication - ensuring the terms of the deal are understood by both parties, particularly with regards to 'project creep'.

[pete]

A Midland Haulage company wanted me to work on their on-site optimisation

The resident design team had been unsuccessfully working on this element for years.

When the owner informed the designers of their plans, their website was taken down. Things then turned ugly.

I informed the site owners I didn't want to get involved in the situation.

It was an eye opener in terms of site ownership for sites locked into a designers server.

[KevJaques]

Pete raises an interesting point and this is why I try not to get involved with hosting. I advise, can set up, support but ultimately it's the client that deals with their own hosting, renewals etc...
Getting so many calls from hosting companies lately, sure I can make money on top of it, however I don't believe that is giving the client value for money.

[Rob James]

Speaking as a web designer, I'd have to say that bad experiences with clients are relatively few and far between, at least when compared to the number of good experiences with clients I've had.

Having said that though, a pet peeve of mine is when clients seem to completely misunderstand exactly what web designers are for and try to handle the design themselves. I would explain further, but I think The Oatmeal sums it up pretty well. Every now and then, that sort of client does come along and completely suck the life and meaning out of a project.

Some clients seem to assume computers and the internet are just magic entities which do all the work themselves, as if designers and developers just have to utter special incantations from the torn and tattered pages of old O'Reilly tomes in order to activate their dark secrets and whip up a website in minutes, and that we can make fiddly little updates with the wave of a wand.

Hypertextus markupia! Stylus cascadia! SHAZAM!... Great, that fixed the problem in Firefox! ...But now it's broken in IE! Hmm, maybe "SHAZAM" isn't supported in IE6...

[bluebox]

We charge a deposit too; so it's frankly not 'tosh'.

Many of our customers came to us after having poor experiences previously and the key is to be transparent, talk in laymans terms where possible and demonstrate your experience and successes.

Ensure you investigate their industry and illustrate you have a good understanding of what they are trying to acheive.

'Feature Creep' is always an issue and a clear mutually agreed brief is clearly a way to avoid this.

[Mat]

Originally Posted by talentin

This is tosh many people dont pay up front because they get stung this industry is just like construction dont pay anything up front many many people have money like me and willing to pay for services but terms should be both for you and the developer and once a stage of the build has been coded then pass on some money for that work and then the developer has a incentive to keep working with you till the finished article is done and so many developers can do one part of the job and not the second bit and then demand the rest of the money and thats very wrong thats why people dont pay up front fee's for web design work i am looking for a sage developer at the moment I will pay up front as sage backs up me up against the developer and each developer gets vetted so happy to pay up front but I have used several developers some great some just would not touch ever again as some can code well and make a site very secure some cant and some can do front end stuff and design well and some really can not but still try get away with design work you have not asked for thats why clients you may have worked with in the past may pay upfront and the others wont

You don't need a web designer. You need an English teacher.

[towarek]

there are plenty of great stories at clientsfromhell.net

[RentalTablets]

I found that anything and everything can be faked online. I've used a variety of different designers, until I found a few dependable designers. What I found that work produced doesn't always end up the same quality as the portfolio. Leading me to question whether the portfolio is even genuine at all. This is paticualrly the case when it's one agency who manages a large local team, the work quality can vary a lot.

Working with individuals is a lot more reliable though. provided the have good work history.

I know I should use local talent. But being a startup local talent is far too expensive. i blame extortionate living costs and tax in the UK.

[graftonmedia]

Firstly, we love our clients... but....

What really gets to me is when a client comes to you... is paying you to make them look good.... but then they try and control the design process and it gets to the point that they really should have just designed the site, logo, product themselves.

One of our clients gave us a testimonial based on the fact we argued with them on the design choices, what they were demanding was actually going to harm their business, and wasn't going help them achieve the goals they had set themselves.

Clients tend to get sites designed for there "own taste" but forget that we're not really designing for them, we are designing something for the end user, i.e potential clients.

You also get clients who are paying you to do something for them, and then they come back and say "my friend who is an IT expert in a hospital says you shouldn't be doing this" and then start including that person in on the conversation/emails, generally the "friend" hasn't got a clue but is just wanting to try and be helpful to the friend. You also get "my friend who is an it expert says he could design and develop this site for £200" or "I could get this done in India for a lot cheaper", thats generally when I let them let there friend or person in india design/develop the site, let them see how bad it turns out, and then knock off the £200 from our bill when we start everything from scratch for them and they now have 100% confidence/understanding in what we are saying is just to help them rather than hinder them.

(sorry for the rambling, slightly tired )

[ROiBOT]

A few people on this thread mentioned learning them selves, and also dreamweaver helping as it highlights syntax. As an editor to just highlight syntax (it does more than that) it is quite expensive.

For those that haven't found it, on PC's teh free editor notepad++ Notepad++ Home highlights syntax nicely for html, php, css etc.

Hope that helps someone

[RentalTablets]

Originally Posted by ROiBOT

A few people on this thread mentioned learning them selves, and also dreamweaver helping as it highlights syntax. As an editor to just highlight syntax (it does more than that) it is quite expensive.

This is really bad advice. proper web design takes years to get right. Web designers are literally spending all their time designing pages and sites to learn their craft. A business owner whose "fairly good" with computers cannot touch the experience and skill of a proper web developer. I'd firm say, hire someone who is talented and knows what they're doing. Don't try to wing it.

[ROiBOT]

@RentalTablets Please be clear, I am not advising people to do it themselves. But there will be those who do, maybe they are starting out on the journey of obtaining those years of experience.

What I am saying is at £361.20 Dreamweaver is very expensive if you want a code syntax highlighter, and Notepad++ is a free tool that many 'pro' web developer use.

Just sharing knowledge.

[HFE Signs]

In my experience its generally down to communication, some clients don't know what they want and its our job as professionals to guide them and help them. We offer free proofs and designs until they are 100% happy. Sometimes the changes can go on for a long time especially if too many people get involved, as you know its not always a wrong or right but a matter of opinion.. the best advice I can offer is good comunication and put yourself in the clients shoes, a good designer should be able to impress with their work.. Focus on the key points the design has to achieve..

[Mark]

How should clients communicate changes to job spec? Should they justify them or await feedback?

[pete]

Design can be a complex subject

Generally speaking a business owners speciality sits within their chosen field, hence problems occur when putting together, design, optimisation and copywriting.

The vast majority of small businesses do not have the available funds to bring in specialists; this forces them to embark on a journey of trusting the designer and doing most of the work themselves. In most cases websites simply become online brochures, these either work or they don’t.

The vast majority of websites are redundant in regards to sales and lead generation; this puts more emphasis on working through, social channels, networking groups and business forums.

[Edge]

Originally Posted by UK Business Network

I do not see why some pro forma, but thats just me, each to their own.

Plenty of reasons! Web and graphic design is virtual so it's the easiest thing in the world to walk away from if a client loses interest or money get's tight. For us it sorts out the jokers from the serious people. Experience has taught us we can't afford not to take money up front. It's the nature of the product.